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FPP,
He’s very proud of himself, as you can imagine to me his pride is like holding a red rag to a bull.

H said that at work she was just like his other male colleagues, everyone treated her like one of the guys, she never was offended by man talk and would talk about sex etc very openly either in a group or alone like a man does.

Exactly that FPP, his hit rate was pretty low. He tells me none of those things were ever meant to happen he got caught up in the moment. The flirting and dirty talk was the vast majority of the time fruitless and she was like that with other guys.

At the time he was unaware she was actively pursuing him but says he can recognise it now.
At the time because she was floating around the workplace involved with other men and she’d tell H about her sexual escapades from over her weekend he thought that she was just like one of the guys.

H said after every time they would end up going too far and kissing, he’d apologise panicked and she’d make out it was not a big deal and tell him to relax it was nothing and to forget about it, but if you saw her videos my goodness!, he had no idea how hard this woman was trying to get him.

H told me that she had her nipples pierced and showed all the men at work her boobs, full front without a bra or anything, she showed my H and said ‘you can touch them if you like’, this was in the workplace. Disgusting.

I only wanted the label because I ask myself all the time, what on earth was that!, what happened? What was it?. Since H and I have talked and talked and talked some more I’m getting a clearer picture but still wondering what on earth to call it.

I don’t know what to call this years long back and forth w/ your H and the OW.

I don’t think anyone can give a rational answer as to "why" he kept giving her rides home after the first kiss or interaction.

It’s like he wanted to kiss her but then was horrified with himself when he did. But he kept allowing himself to be in that position again and again.

Listen I had plenty of men hit on me in the workplace. Some knew I was married but figured it was "safe" b/c we were both married and it wouldn’t amount to anything. But I knew where to draw the line and not encourage things.

Clearly the OW has issues if she’s showing her boobs to random men at work. But…….your H should have known when to disengage.

Don’t make excuses for him. I did that after the first affair and it made it easier for him to have a second affair. Don’t rug sweep this or try to justify him as a victim.

He should have stopped giving her rides home. He lied by omission to you. He was behaving very poorly and he was being shady.

Can you reconcile from this? Yes. But it’s now up to the cheater to prove to you that he’s no longer that sneaky cheating guy and he recognizes ALL of the mistakes he made.

And he has a way of plan to avoid the same situations in the future.

IDK ... if my W had only kissed someone other than me ... I think I'd still think she betrayed me, and I still think I'd feel awful. I expect I'd still have to go through the recovery process, and I'd still consider splitting. I'd still want my WS to go through the process of changing from betrayer to good partner.

Bruce,

To heal, IMO, you need to attend to your own pain and process that out of your body, no matter what your H did. You hurt as much as you hurt, whether your H kissed and fondled or he kept a stable of NSA sexual partners.

Your pain is your response to what he did. It may seem to be too intense, deep, wide, long-lasting, etc., etc., etc. than it 'should' be, but healing requires dealing with what is.

1st wife,
He said because he’d apologised and she made out it was no big deal he’d brush it under the carpet. They’d go back to treating each other like regular colleagues and after sometimes months the inappropriate talking would start up again.

Dirty talk is H thing, it doesn’t even have to be directed towards him just talking about sex or anything sexual will get him going in an instant. H said he would get aroused, at the time he got caught up in the moment and yes he admits he wanted to kiss her in that split second but once he did it would stop and he said he would think to himself ‘what the f*ck are you doing?’.

I think this is what I struggle to accept, he tells me none of the kissing/touching was ever meant to happen but then he put himself in the position, he said he enjoyed the banter/dirty talking and flirting but it was not meant to go that far. I asked if every time they kissed he was the one that instigated?, he said that a couple of times he was the one who instigated but the rest of the time it was her that leaned in to him to kiss.

H said it is all his own fault, he should not have even been talking to a female colleague let alone having sexual banter with her, just because everyone else spoke to her like that doesn’t mean he had to. He admits now he should not have even given her a lift home and he should never have kept putting himself in that position. He tells me that when he thinks back even he can’t explain what he was thinking when she asked for a lift, he says he wasn’t thinking at all he just did it.

Sisoon,

The question is how do I process the pain out of my body?, CBT doesn’t help much. Throughout the day my mind starts working overtime and I’m constantly trying to make sense of this ‘thing’ my H did and weather he had feelings for her which he strongly denies, why this why that etc and by the end of the day I’m in bits.

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve become aware of a few things that I have reacted to, firstly was a the word ‘simp’ and ‘simping’, I was unaware of what this meant, I’d seen it on a couple of AP’s tik tok videos about my H (I’m such a simp for this guy & I can’t stop simping for this guy at work). I just assumed it meant a crush or something but then I saw it on a meme and decided to google the meaning and I was as furious, which then later turned into sadness.

Secondly, H suggested we go to a seaside town one weekend and I remembered that he was supposed to go to this place years ago with work for a colleague party, it was for the weekend (staying overnight) but he never went and I remember being puzzled at the time as to why he wasn’t interested because he lost the deposit we paid. When I asked about it I saw his face and could tell he’d remembered something so I asked him to pull over the car so we could talk and he did.

H told me he paid the deposit to go (this was in summer 2021) but as the time got nearer AP came to him and asked if he was going, he said yes, a few days later she approached him and said ‘you’re staying in a room with me and xxx (another female colleague) and we’re going to have a threesome’. H said he started laughing and said oh really. He didn’t go on that work trip.

This information made me furious but then really sad.

Thirdly, I confided in a friend and she said to me ‘oh my gosh he really loves you doesn’t he?, well at least now you know that he’s never going to actually cheat on you’. I know what she meant but it did make me feel a little pathetic.

With all the evidence I have from my H, AP & AP’s videos made at the time I have come to some conclusions.

My H had a colleague with a massive crush on him, he absolutely loved this (who wouldn’t) he loved it even more when she would talk to him about sexual things as it would get him aroused.

Sadly on a few occasions in the car ride home the sexual banter would lead to a kiss with touching for less than a minute.

My H was offered PIV many times, he never took it. My H was offered oral on 3 occasions he never took it. My H was offered a threesome, he never took it.

My H came to me years after and confessed all of his secrets, he didn’t have to blow his whole world up.

My H took a polygraph and passed.

My fucking idiot husband put himself in a position where a young woman less than half his wife’s age kissed him and then took his hand to lead him to the bedroom and he ran off!.

I want to love him and kill him at the same time.

I feel sadness but also thankful, it could have been much worse.

I feel the questions I have in my head I can answer myself now and for the most part when I start panicking about my H having feelings for her I think to myself, well if he did have feelings for her they weren’t very nice ones, imagine trying to get a man in to bed, offering bj’s and threesomes and being rejected every single time, that’s not how he would treat her if he’d have cared.

I’ve also got to a point where I really don’t want to know anymore, even if there is something I’ve missed, I’m sick of talking about it, I know the facts, it is what it is, nothings going to change the facts. H has given his reasons for choosing to put himself in these positions, no reason will be good enough for me so who cares?!. The facts remain. It happened nothing is going to change.

All in all I seem to be feeling sadness about it all now, like really sad this has happened.

[This message edited by Bruce123 at 2:44 PM, Thursday, May 1st]

Bruce,

I kissed and fondled several girls/women in my day. How many? Well, every one who allowed it. And the ones who didn’t allow it? I only found that out because I tried to kiss/fondle them, too.

One of the women I fondled, I was in love with. The rest, well, varies. Most, I at least liked. Some, I barely knew. I fondled a woman at a party one time whose name I didn’t know.

Maybe this is different for you and me. Maybe you didn’t allow kissing/fondling before you had feelings for the guy, or thought he had feelings for you. And you’re projecting this onto your husband. I don’t know about him, but for me, feelings weren’t required. Feelings made it better, but were not required. If I was allowed to kiss/fondle, I kissed/fondled.

When a cat comes up and rubs against your leg, most people’s reaction is to reach down and pet the cat. Why? Well, I don’t know. It’s nice.

Your husband was tempted, but he passed the test. He doesn’t get perfect marks, but he passed.

When you marry, you should develop an allergy to cats. He should have been allergic then; I’ll bet he is now. Some allergies develop with exposure.

You two have been through the fire and have emerged. Scars? I suppose so.

But don’t be sad.

FPP, thank you.

So my H has been distant lately, very quiet.
If I get upset, he no longer holds my hand or cuddles me he says he doesn’t know what to do anymore.
He’s keeping less contact with me throughout the day and all in all generally looks like he’s had enough.
I have asked if he’s had enough of trying to R and he tells me no he’s all in but I don’t know why he feels emotionally disconnected at the moment, almost as if he feels sorry for himself.

I have arranged for us to go to couples therapy on Tuesday and when I told him last night he didn’t really want to go, he said he’s willing to do anything so he will go but he did look at me like I was the ‘bad guy’.

When I ask him what is going on inside his head he tells me nothing I’m just tired, he will NOT let me in.

I’m unsure what to say to shake him out of this or weather I should even bother trying.

Should I just leave him in his distant mood and let things be what they’ll be or should I speak to him about it?

If he’s shutting down it’s because he doesn’t want to face the consequences.

It could be too painful for him or it could be he’s tired of discussing it.

Whatever it is I think you can see it’s not helpful.

If I were you I would always be prepared for him to say "I am done".

He says he wants to R but his actions are completely the opposite of someone trying to make amends.

If he’s not making amends or even trying, you will be more unhappy months/years from now that no effort was made and he didn’t "care" enough to do anything.

You are seeing the classic cheater behavior in some ways. He wants to sweep this under the rug and "move on" leaving you to just basically accept it and not discuss it.

My H had 2 affairs. First one I allowed to be rugswept because I didn’t know any better. Second one I finally stood up to him, planned to D him and refused R until he started showing me some reason to give him another chance.

Shame is lifelong without therapy. Guilt has a shelf life. This is why you two need a therapist who is an expert in infidelity. You need a place to vent. He needs to hear it, and IF y’all can leave it there, in the IC office, you might have a chance at true R. You need to talk. He needs to have the rest of the time being a caring spouse without it hanging over his head 24/7.
It appears a middle age man got in over his head and regrets it but has no clue how to fix it. I read he feels guilt. Please don’t confuse it with shame. Shame is imposed on many children who don’t recognize why they keep having issues throughout their lives. Guilt is self imposed because we ask ourselves why we were so stupid. I think he often asks himself that.
If he is a reasonably healthy man emotionally and you a healthy woman you can move past this. My husband cheated years ago while traveling. He was a young idiot but he has improved and we have a good life.
I wish you good luck.

I’m with Cooley, here, Bruce.

If you love this man and believe he loves you, it’s time to get past this.

Everything you’re doing is signaling to him that you no longer love him, and never will. He is staring at a loveless relationship. Is it his fault? Of course it is, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care deeply about losing you.

You know everything you’re ever going to know. You need to decide, once and for all, if you can get past it. If not, then end everyone’s misery and move on.

But if you want to stay with him, tell him that, in no uncertain terms. Tel him you’re beating up the old him, but you’re going to stop doing that. And live it.

Does he deserve this grace? Maybe not, maybe not.

But if you want it, don’t kill it.

The question is how do I process the pain out of my body?

Sorry.I missed the question in the post of 2 weeks ago.

IMO, you resolve the feelings by expressing them in safe ways. If CBT is 'cognitive behavioral therapy', I could be very wrong, but my understanding is that it teaches practitioners to sort of put feelings aside without stuffing them and without expressing them.

A lot of feelings can be resolved verbally, either by writing or talking. Some, though, need to be felt; they need to flow through one's body, assisted perhaps by shaking, screaming, crying, hitting something symbolic, etc., etc., etc. Some feeling release can be done on one's own; some need help.

If CBT is not working, there are many other types of therapy. My reco is to talk about this with your IC. Maybe they can help you themselves; maybe they can give you some recommendations for other therapists if they don't work directly with feelings.

*****

The ap acted just like men at work? I don't remember ever baring my chest or seeing colleagues bare their chests at work.

I think your H may be at a point at which he has to bare more of his soul to you, and he's not willing to do that at this time.

I relied on 'requirements for R'. I had a spreadsheet in my head that kept track of my W's actions related to my requirements - the ones she met, and the ones she didn't meet. She kept meeting my requirements. I kept meeting hers. We R'ed.

So ... do you have requirements for R? Behaviors that you want to experience from him and behaviors you don't want to experience? If not, what do you think about developing some?